The Lord had more to say about gall through His servant Jeremiah: Jeremiah 23:13-17 Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. For a number of reasons Texans dont want to say bad things about a church no matter how many people are being hurt. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. Jesus Church or 501(c)3 Religious business? 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. Why is Guidepost Solutions now involved? Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. I know that tens of thousands left GW before I did and they walked away without the decency to help others. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. The virus is having a wonderful time right now spreading through this country, taking advantage of circumstances where people have let their guard go down. He looked at me kindly and slightly amused and said, thats okay. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist. "He saw it for what it was. The Bible tells us lotz of neet stuff before it happen/happens. i dont have that conscience when i am running off on my own and not caring about serving Jesus, but instead caring about how big my kingdom is or how big an influence i am making or how much press i got this week or how many people got baptized. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. ". -Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truths. Ok, so i am seeing that a lot of people do not like this church. This guy had his audience eating out of the palms of his hands. He spends the remainder of the sermon talking about Saul who became Paul and forgiveness. AFter the persecution and time in Antioch, Barnabus seems to make a decision on his own to go to Tarsus to find Paul. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? rather than come in glory he came in humility. Prayer Requests If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. But the Pipers, Mohlers, Akins and others saw him as someone really catching the attention of the young guystheir followers. If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it. In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. There is great comfort to be found in that. And there were no acrobats, flying drummers, or the need to check out the latest cosmetic procedure on the head worship pastor there. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas services. *carefully targeting pastors who want to build an empire of their own with an easy publicity stunt (although described Christian-like so it actually sounds noble, in both marketing and in the buying pastors self-talk), @ LT: Nor to any of the other dead bodies behind the bus. . But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. Its all good until (insert question or issue). Lindell doesnt have a real active blog, his third from last entry is titled: Certainly, or we are no better than he is. Blech!! I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. years ago when non denoms were pentecostal and full gospelit seemed they were trying to get back to the Jesus of the bible, the Living Jesus. I call that tragic because there are still a lot of honest pastors and churches out there. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. So Mars Hillweve done this in the pastyou probably dont know thissome years ago you all purchased a large piece of land in India that now has on orphanage with 100 kids on it and you purchased the land. I respectfully dissent, Evangelical NIH director Francis Collins says 'most churches' should be remote until public is vaccinated. After describing the crucifixion of Jesus, Mark Driscoll asks: Who has attacked you? Here is Stephen facing public opposition. I didnt feel pressured. In a statement Monday, the Christian County Health Department said they also received numerous complaints from the community about the services and urged those who attended to monitor themselves for COVID-19 symptoms over the next 14 days. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. There is no uncertainty in that. GW used to require people to take a class and understand the commitment but they couldnt keep their salvation numbers up without the spontaneous element that include giving away free clothes and smart little swag bags for those willing to dunk for the cameras. I dont beleive that for a moment. I knew I was being set up when I watched MDs embedded church video posted here at TWW. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. He was an abusing thug. there is a scripture somewhere that says i wont speak against Gods annointed, which was david re saul i believe, and people have used this (or churches have used this to keep people quiet) as a reason to never say anything about church abuse. But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. We have strongly encouraged masking and social distancing each and every weekend during this challenging season. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. But you need to make sure you hear the second truth. "Although I don't think I'm going to 'love' this column.". Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. stephen the shepherd is dying. your comments are great. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/, http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308, http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21, http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/, http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . what would you say and do (if they stoned you) angry mob is murdering him openly publicly and shamefully. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). Sure, It is very reasonable for kind folK to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them (missive pastors) to go back to influencing the lives of the folks that they wish to shepherd. he (stephen) probably had a ministry, forgiving means you transfer judgment to Jesus, thats what he does, (stephen transfers it to jesus to judge paul), words fail me, but a wrote a bunch which should be up soon lol, i tweeted: Seems like the truth being covered, twisted, remade, ignored is what keeps these people in power and LTs post brings the truth as it actually is back to the forefront. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. I have to disagree Gus considering you mentioned brain cells. Mark Driscoll has shown that hes capable of inflicting a lot of damage on many people. And these leaders present themselves as one thing but are deceiving people the entire time. His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. I hope more will speak up in the future. Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. Otherwise, quit calling those 40 pastors and all those victims liars. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. They stay in and around the very thing that ruined them in the first place. Sorry, I dont know why I wrote that, Ive always thought of you as a him. But maybe power is just something that is too tempting for him to handle and in order for him to live out his life following Christ, it may be something he must never let pass his lipsmuch like alcoholics cannot drink again. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. He is a draw. I think it should lie with the one who broke the trust in the first place. What I dont get is that those pastors dont care if they look completely dishonest in their statements. hmmm Im sure someone wittier than I can do something with his Training ourselves to sense right from wrong. I didnt realize tens of thousands had already left. Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. It was just a matter of time before New Calvinism found a way to resurrect its leading icon. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? The he takes him back to Antioch where they work together for a year with converted Gentiles. Actually are pews still in general use? Location. No it wasnt, thanks for the insights. District. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. Or is it just a GW thing? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em. However, you are on to something with the radical chic concept. Do any of you who oppose Driscoll preaching or running a church again, is there a way he could ever get forgiveness from yall to do that sort of ministry again? Monday, December 15, 2008 It was really bad, disastrous I might even say. I would lay 50 to 1 odds that a change in MD will be announced and proved to be a change in words not a change in behavior! Only the hero. He said it makes sense that the word "sin" would appear multiple times in a Biblical discussion of homosexuality. Feel sorry for him instead as a burned out shell without compassion. they warm up to stone people like baseball players and lay their coats at the feet of saul to show he is the alpha. (I would have thought he was the lazy one who didnt want to get his hands dirty by actually doing anything but talking a lot), takes it from daniel where god becomes man, if you saw Jesus you would not likely see him as you expect. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. To learn more, visit ja. But he was not still throwing men and women (!) Return to homepage. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. Im guessing Driscolls trying to resurrect his career by going into Charismatic type denominations or churches. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. Bob, I loved your comment. Associating with Driscoll might make them feel younger and edgy. its a little hard to swallow that he knew nothing about Driscolls behaviour. So glad for the folks that started the petition to dis-invite Driscoll, which I signed as well as for those in Australia who protested his abusive, un-Christian behavior toward others, including women. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. Members are guests? until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. hee hee. If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who? Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. And Lindell knows none of that is because of him. This captures precisely what I have been sensing as well. I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. Reveal the conspiracy please. That idea was right before the idea that they were always having to give a lot of money to the church while we have voluntary giving. But here is the underlying issue: we in evangelical Christianity have become so good at eisogeting the scriptures (reading ourselves into the story) it has gotten to the point of narcissism, or as one preacher puts it, narcigesis., Dont believe me? How can they do that? Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. ), Odd how we often tend to read these things as definitive acvounts, when in reality, there are hints of many other things that go unmentioned. I wish just one person would have spoken up sooner. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. Im not kidding. . My point with Che is to draw a parallel. When not enough graduates came forward they started begging people please any graduate or relative of a graduate, even if you just graduated from Kindergarten, please please come get your free gift because what Kindergartner doesnt need advice on how to buy a car? I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. He told me Tuesday that he has every right to campaign for repeal in a sermon. However, we also see that David and Samuel were permitted to speak out publicly against Saul in truth. I find that when the Lord is using my mouth it is never vulgar or rude. . Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. Totally. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. vengance is where you make someone pay. In his case, trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. Also, you dont want the sheep to get uppity. One of the most chilling doctrines out of Calvinism is using Paul for this purpose. Ditto Bent Meyer who opposed the consolidation of powerful. They just have to shamelessly scam more money in the name of Jesus. . Penalty Flag? Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. I think the guys a jerk and theres plenty of evidence out there for it. Doing well as opposed to what? Thank you. There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. She was warned not to work with Agathos. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. How can they do that? "It is possible for someone who has been a life-long alcoholic to stop. Did Driscoll forget about the part where Saul went away for years after his conversion. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Analogously, there are certain qualities that police forces screen for, to hopefully screen out bullies who want a uniform. It was clear to me that Marks attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose. "And how many knownot everything you read on the internet is true". I think that explains a lot of it. He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/. For those who follow celebrities, I dont, this is the church that made it into the news last year. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). The bathrooms were tiny and not particularly nice. It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. May the Lord bless our search for da truth, and grant us mucho wisdom. Applying this mode to spiritual abuse has gotten me thinking..and I wonder if in the future Mark will only hang around people/churches that are willing to stay on this Drama Triangle. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. Also, I received another great message from one of our Australia graduates thought this would bless you too "In other words, you can believe what you want within the confines of the four walls of the church as long as you don't live it outside of the church.". It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. The US pastor, who has courted controversy for what has been dubbed his "more-macho-than-thou" brand of Christianity, resigned from his Seattle megachurch in October after being found " guilty of pride" as well as abusive, controlling and manipulative behaviour. At that time, although I led Agathos, I was not taking a salary from Agathos. Why I did not run I do not know except I had a contract. Membership Covenants There is no glorifying God in any of that. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. It is ok to ask for openess and transparancy. Is to be- But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. it is heartbreaking to have to help them get through the transfer of custody until the one can get through a treatment and be able to be around the child again. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. Mark was talking about Mark. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. One needed them because they were somehow spiritually qualified (?) This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. But we dont know yet for sure. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. The emails we received were similarly written. The Lord called to him in a vision, Ananias! The opposition is to Jesus. Bah, hit reply to soon. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. The Rev. (if you heard anything on the internet its not true, mark scrubbed his site already so if its on the internet a bunch of liars wrote it) we dont want to shoot the wounded. I doubt he walked away broke. I dont think he is qualified to lead any church or ministry of any size until he exhibits the fruit of the Spirit for a long, long time. In December 2007, Merle and I quietly left Mars Hill Church. It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. I try to make sure my examples reflect current GW practice which is repellent to follow but important that people understand the stuff that I am posting is happening in real time. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. ATB But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. i want to again put a human face on what Mark Driscoll and others in Acts 29 insist on keeping free of anything but CEO Business speak and mistakes that were made. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) and it even works better when there is cheap grace and forgiveness all around. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. So Brian Houston lied and succeeded in ending the protests and the media scrutiny temporarily. I would say he was a tyrannical charlatan that used people for his own purposes and claiming it was of Christ. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. Pun intended. I work with the Online Campus and part of that is getting to be involved in anything Online Campus related. of course i have no idea really what is driving mark driscoll but thats what i think it might be. There are some Calvinists who go in the opposite direction and are very humbled by their monergistic view of salvation. Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. What do you think, Albuquerque? LT wrote: But Peter rebuked him for his motives and told him to repent of his wickedness and told him he was gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.. I probably wont be won over to the side of communism. @ Bridget: Plus I put up some Mozart for you guys. So grateful others are addressing these serious problems that plague Christendom. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. was paul asking for forgiveness? No body guards. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. It is affiliated with Assemblies of God USA. One of the men had been to a conference in Seattle and was just wowed by his missional approach. he smiles and there is love in his heart. A lot of people will say, 'I got that. He threatened to make sure that I could never be in ministry again. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. He screamed and swore. It is all choreographed and it works! No one has to agree with me. Driscoll should not be granted any level of power till he has demonstrated that he has obtained the humility necessary to handle it.
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