1) Theyve got the moral compass of Donald Trump. cheaper transit promoting sprawl. This is also a common way of pricing telecom services, where the majority of costs arise from providing the network, not the marginal cost of using it. The transit agency is not an individual who is broken by being mugged of $100; it should think in terms of its own finances, not in terms of deterrence. San Fransisco went to POP for their buses, and fare violations and dwell times both went down substantially. I read the Vox article and I have to say, I told you so! @Sassy: If subsidized transit leads to people moving further out and leading more car oriented lives, it could even increase transportation costs, as people saved money on housing by moving to a further out area, but end up needing a car for many non-commute trips.. Based on a five-day work week, the average month has between 22 and 23 work days. I more or less agree but then if we compare Greater Paris with Tokyo, the former with very affordable transit and the latter with more expensive transit, then clearly it doesnt always follow, ie. Menu and widgets Thats not the way real people actually use a Metro system (well maybe London where you might expect to get hit with an unexpected big bill depending on trip length, time of travel blah, blah.) In 2016, it [Paris] has been ranked as the best public transport system in the world by the ITDP with 100 percent of people in the city of Paris having an easy access to rapid transportation, ahead of 26 other international cities (including London, New York City and Tokyo). @Phake Nick Sorry that narrative is wrong, the pro-car consensus was if anything more dominant 1950-1987, highways and railways were actually paired together e.g. You really have no reason to be making this claim. Why is pay as you go more popular?? However, what Ive encountered more resistance about is the idea that people should just be able to walk onto a bus or train. They need to learn a lesson from their Parisian neighbours. Personally Id rather SNCF hired from Keolis and not from Air France, While the fine for fare dodging is indeed 60 thats for a first time offense. Think this is a relatively recent initiative, maybe withn the last 5 years or so. As I pointed out in a recent post, Melun which is on the other side of the river Seine to Fontainebleu about 45km from central Paris, has 50,000 residents at density 5,000/km2. As you can imagine, any criminal record on a 27-year-olds CV would be detrimental to many future opportunities. But I think those differences have eroded by now. Despite your notions, the planners in HK and Singapore etc are prioritising the transit aspects with financial performance being secondary. Beyond population density, efficiency is an important reason why transit is so cheap in East Asia. Locked. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. It is over 25-year-old technology by now. Stores dont have gates. See Santa Con and other events for affluent proud dysfunction. That makes a big difference because it eliminates the trip-chaining penalty that results in many transit systems. It certainly helps the use of the Metro/RER, keeps car use low (you need to be slightly insane to try to drive in Paris; I did for the first year . But fares account for the largest chunk about 38 percent (or $6.2 billion) of the MTAs annual earnings. How is this intuitive at all? Ive had fare inspection before on a 1 am commuter train out of Paddington before. Paris has one-way faregates, so half the exit space is unusable during (one-way) busy times, and the exit gates are hard to open and easy to close in order to discourage fare dodging. In particular off-peak travel could be way cheaper with price differentiation, and would definitely have a progressive social impact. In lieu of treating it as a big intra-urban culture war, I am going to talk about best practices from the perspective of limiting revenue loss to a minimum. I recently tried to make a trip that was 10 minute drive and came up with 1.5 hours on the bus (that isnt counting waiting time for the bus to arrive or in the waiting room between when I get there and my appointment) needless to say I drove. I dont quite get what is hard to open . The next state government forced the city transit operators to simplify their systems and work together for the next contract . https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/11/public-transportation-security-safety-laws-protests-equity/602212/ The Wiki section on France is truly pathetic (not worth publishing or reporting but I am sure it was): A 2009 study found that the share of immigrants in the population has no significant impact on crime rates once immigrants economic circumstances are controlled for, while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed non-immigrants.[83] A study by sociologist Farhad Khosrokhavar, director of studies at the EHESS, found that Muslims, mostly from North African origin, are becoming the most numerous group in [French prisons].[84][85] His work has been criticized for taking into account only 160 prisoners in 4 prisons, all close to northern Paris where most immigrants live. We are seeing violence directed at transit systems around the world which weve discussed here recently (link below). though my excuse was I was working out in the suburbs; at the end of my first year the M7 extension reached Villejujif, and simultaneously my old car was vandalised and also gave up the ghost) and helps the economics of those tens of thousands of modest restos etc. We have utilized this guidance to seek to persuade TFL to reach an out of Court Settlement with many of our clients. Hmmm, Grenfell maybe not (when they renovated the building they actually removed one of the two stairwells ). So, you have to swipe-in AND swipe-out. This is an issue where my main methodology for making recommendations for Americans looking at peer developed countries is especially useful. It is taking all the land area of Ile de France and ignoring that huge parts of it are either farmland (eg. (LogOut/ This makes sense when people pay a fare, but many (if not most) users have unlimited monthly passes. For smaller municipalities, transit should be free. Or maybe it is part of a longer-term game by Pecresse and conservatives to kill the VT which was made more ubiquitous by Mitterrand (the Chevnement law). Trains and trams are also PoP. Broadly: smartcards/ticket machines that actually work and are easy to use, cleaner network/new trains/reliability and half-height barriers/visible staff will do ya. It was an absolute dream if you lived in Paris. That doesnt pay for itself. Transit agencies should aim at a fare system, including enforcement, that allows passengers to get on and off trains quickly, with minimum friction. I was worried he would bring the awful British views of public transit to the job, and sure enough, an extraordinary focus on fares and fare-evasion, increased policing and compliance, just couldnt be more wrong. Its the nature of the mindset that believes it can avoid spending real money by improving efficiency (at someone elses expense/convenience, often far into the future) to think this way. If you are charged with an offence and are to be prosecuted in court, you may receive a postal requisition. I suspect the reason Paris is capping-curious is precisely that the breakeven point there is so high it was 52 relative to buying tickets in bundles of 10 last time I was there. There isnt really much they can do except hand down fines. Germany is known for stereotypically being law-abiding, I am not sure how well their experience generalizes. If you decide to plead guilty, you can choose to go to court or not. With regard to other countries in the Anglosphere, I think Singapore and London actually do have monthlies: Singapore has the Adult Monthly Travel Card allowing unlimited use of bus and train services for a month islandwide, for $120. However, again one should compare the compact arrangement of Ile de France versus what happens with Japan & Tokyos laissez-faire development policies. Whereas today the program is a net revenue generator if it halves subway fare evasion, a level that already seems strained, within ten years, assuming normal fare escalation, it will need to cut fare evasion by about 90%, which is a complete fantasy. The fine in Berlin is 60. He was very honest and though the odds may have been against us, he was able to come up with a good plan of action. Verified Hi Thank you for your question. Paris if flat fare so it doesnt matter and they can have more, unattended, exits far from the attended area. This split also had an effect on the policing of fare evasion, as checks used to be a LOT rarer on the S-Bahn than the U-Bahn or tram, and in my experience the inspectors also tended to be more lenient, letting people off with a warning if they had a passable excuse, which would never happen with the BVG inspectors. The other point about the Asians, as I have mentioned in earlier responses on this same issue, is that the cost is very low, so they can use fancy conditions to vary the fare (on distance, time, whatever) but it will always be a travel bargain (Singapore, Hong Kong, both world cities); note also that this is not the case for their rail links to the airport where they adopt maximum extraction policies (on the basis of social justice I guess; if you can afford to fly you can afford this higher fare), such that far more Hong Kongers use buses to the airport than the airport express (though there are geographical reasons too). Exactly. *I already hate the newer online ticketing and information systems. a longer trip across town to an Ikea store or whatever. Every commute brims over with aggro. Because theyre a THEM, not an US., ASIDE: This is why gate alarms are A TERRIBLE IDEA unless youre going to ALWAYS staff those gates. There are at least a couple in SF (24th and 16th and Mission) that do this. And Id also like to note if anyone here knows of any similar cases like this, and what was the outcome. As someone unfamiliar with any type of legal proceedings they made sure I was updated through every step of the process and, ultimately, helped me to achieve a satisfactory conclusion. Indeed if you can get most of your passengers/city reaching two yeses then your casual evasion will be well below a level worth caring about.. Finally, monthly passes are regressive for people with very low incomes, and uncertain cash flows, as they may simply not be able to make bulk purchases.. If they decide to prosecute, you will receive a Court Summons in the post, providing a date when you must attend court. Its the number of non-commuting trips that are hard to budget for because they can be more variable from week-to-week and month-to-month. Of course, you can ask for transit to be free, and investments budgets to be endless, but that is not a very constructive approach to solve real-world problems. So if someone rides a King County Bus, then a Sound Transit train, both Sound Transit and King County get money. it is clear that you dont have any experience of very well run transit city, such as in East Asia, where rich and poor regularly alike use transit. It caused continuous scale back of services but all see it as a natural result of motorization and expansion of highway into rural area, in addition to aging and reducing population in rural area, although even the Japanese COmmunist Party is support of the union against privatization failed to imagine the scale of effect its causing right now in their PR material at the time. Is there any country where ethnic minority which is poorer than rest of the population is not disproportionately inprisoned? Perhaps the approach shouldnt be to offer DISincentives for riders who dont have passes but rather to offer positive incentives for more people to use electronic, cash-free payment methods even if they fall outside the middle-class demographic. 1) BART has distance-based fares. This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/LegalAdviceUK. In fact, I think most US cities should be fareless anyway since their farebox contribution to revenue is so low. 800851655). I think TfL is roughly in that area as well lumping both the Tube and the buses; sure, the Tube breaks even, but London has a way higher bus/rail ridership ratio than Paris or Berlin. I can say with all my heart, that no matter the case, you can truly rely on this law firm, and you can expect the most favourable result. Wow, I had no idea a Japanese city could have so much car dependent sprawl! They claim such abuse could be costing the government hundreds of million in long term. But yeah, the moralistic response on the left of treating fare evasion as something good (esp. This is done in various forms such as responding to a single justice procedure notice or pleading guilty in person at a court hearing. What fare evasion offences could I be prosecuted for? They are cited in the same way that a fare evader is, even though theyve obviously paid the fare. It takes tourists and business travellers to Gatwick and Luton airports. Theyll be lucky if they dont get some Hong Kong-inspired rebellion! (I have literally just joined this site so apologies if I do anything wrong!) I think its also right thing to talk about the sum of the three: *Except in the actual immigrant nations of USA, Canada and Australia where crime rates are lower in immigrants! Of all the oddities thrown up by rail privatisation, this must rank among the oddest: a train company in the business of running fewer trains. Americans who support immigration liberalization practically never listen when I try bringing up the liberal work visa, asylum, and naturalization policies of Germany or Sweden. @Sassy: Japan has a norm of subsidized commuting costs (mostly employer subsidized, but the amount of government subsidy increases as income increases since it comes as a tax benefit), and while its cool that people can and do commute via Shinkansen from exurbs over 100km from the city center, I dont think that is behavior the government should promote.. Or elect Corbyn.). being applied to NYC-MTA. Most people will pay, one way regardless. The commuting trips are the predictable part of that persons transportation. How did you come up with M16s?? If convicted, you will: If Transport for London believes that you have committed a criminal offence, we may decide to prosecute you. And it does an appalling job. because of Chile, but it goes back further than that) isnt great. This was a great result and I could not be more grateful. A sizable proportion of riders who do not pay would just stop riding altogether, for one. It is advisable to seek the representation of a solicitor in this situation. My other point is that Monthly or Annual Travel Passes are increasingly old news in the UK as Pay as you go with far capping is more popular, and also because 5 days a week commuting is on the decline. It seems a bit of a wasted effort otherwise, eh?, Oh, should of added, that this is why when youre designing your roaming checks youre really looking for how you can MAXIMISE the number of people that saw that check happen. It involves negotiations and confidential ridership data, but boils down to passenger counts, done (I believe) once every three years. The question boils down to how New York crowding levels compare with those on the busiest urban POP line, the Munich S-Bahn trunk. Thats what a monthly/annual pass stands for. if you dont have them, lots of people, and not just affluent whites, are going to stay away. Like the time an older African-American woman got pissed off about younger African-American woman having a White boyfriend and decide to take it out on me, subjecting me to big rant on why African-American women can only really be sexually pleased by African-American men while hitting me with a plastic bottle. since New Yorkers ride off-peak so much less than Parisians. Good lord! People do not take mass transit at rush-hour if they can help it. I imagine Stockholm looked elsewhere than Germany in the 1950s? My tickets were purchased six weeks in advance and were second class non-reserved and off-peak and this is supposed to be the cheapest option. [my selected extracts], https://autonomy.work/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Autonomy-claim-the-commute-2021-v9.pdf. Britain generally overuses faregates, for example on the commuter trains in London. france.fr The official website of France. In Berlin theres a similar situation DB Regio runs the S-Bahn, BVG runs the U-Bahn and surface transit and thus a similar issue arises of how to split revenues. Most people move further from the city to save on housing costs, but that is balanced by commuting costs and time. Finally, as to user satisfaction, you may well be correct if youre talking of the Brits/Londoners. And I speak as a transit user. 2019) (applying abuse-of-discretion standard to review the denial of a motion to amend to add a claim for punitive damages), review denied (Minn. Mar. have been recorded, including against people with mental disability trying to validate their ticket with their disability discount count, with fare inspector questioning authenticity of the disabled passengers proof of disability, and MTR have defended these actions by saying they are allowed to use reasonable violence against those who suspected to have violated their bylaw. They are hostile to passengers with disabilities, they cost money to maintain, they constrain passenger flow at busy times, and they dont really save money evidently, New Yorks subway fare evasion rate is within the range of Berlin, Munich, and Zurich. (LogOut/ So what should the new monthly and single-ride fare cost? If this is the case, follow the instructions carefully. In a world trying to coax car drivers out of their cars, or to use them less, youve got to make the system frictionless and fair, or more than fair. In fact, all of these have had a more permissive stance that has been incrementally put in place in NYC over the past 2-3 years, and anyone who rides the train has seen it. The penny pinching Japanese private railroad operators seems very able to operate and plan efficient transit decades ahead. However, in states such as California -- where cities and transit authorities can choose to make fare evasion a civil violation under Section 99580 of the Public Utilities 2) BART has had teen-gang problems, where a dozen kids hop the fare gates, rob/assault the passengers, and leave en-mass at the next stop over the gates before any law enforcement appears. In the vast majority of cities, no excuse exists to have any kind of overt fare control. And thats before we get to lack of light-rail. Or visit an exhibition, see a show, a sporting event etc. My single ticket to Windermere cost about $A200; by comparison, I can travel from Sydneys Central Station to Bomaderry on NSWs South Coast (a three hour journey, as is Windermere from London) for $2.50 on my seniors Opal Card. I dont think anyone could reasonably make the argument that rail privatisation in the UK saw worse service. Its a godsend. Just please stop being ridiculous. In Switzerland, where consolidated fares have been in existence for more than a century, there are regular passenger counts. > And the S-Bahn gets subsidies because of lower suburban ridership, same as the RER/Transilien. The only thing predictable about the service is that its always awful: the train you want is odds-on to be late or cancelled. WebHow do I write a TFL fare evasion out-of-court settlement letter? Theres a moralistic discourse in the United States about fare evasion on public transport that makes it about every issue other than public transport or fares. In both cities, there are further discounts for annual tickets. You must read the notice carefully as it may not be necessary for you to come to court in person. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. But what is the objective? In the real-life Berlin, theres an entire subculture of fare dodging. Even the fragmented British railway system is able to manage fare revenue distribution for generic tickets. That maybe the US its not in the UK. And the chances of being killed by police will be even lower. If you do not submit a plea and also do not attend the hearing, the court may issue a warrant for your arrest. Its one of these things that on some level anyone can end up doing technically I did it once in grad school, when I brought in a tray of leftover cookies after a talk intending to take them back to Columbia, and someone on the train offered me $1 for 3 of them and I said yes. If you through more honest pricing for the actual demand can avoid both things such as the Second Avenue Subway or horrible overcrowding that is a very good thing. Right, but buses represent a small fraction of total pax, certainly in the centre but presumably more in the outer regions (where they will also be less cost-efficient). One doesnt think, on the weekend or non-commuting period, whether to take a short or a long trip on the Metro, one thinks of the trips one wants/needs to take and might compare doing it by Metro, private car or taxi. Thats a significant consideration for regions with large income disparities. Development London, Guidance in providing supporting documents. Webmagistrates court. Its a proxy for lawlessness, for police racism, for public safety, for poverty. Passport-size photos, applications, visiting the ticket office. In any case, it should be clear that both Paris and Tokyo could be much more compact than they currently are. Those university students that take the bus for a 1200 meter ride, do push up the price for low-income earners that maybe cannot afford a monthly pass. Why not try to minimize the average cost of a trip in the system instead? Because the truth is that ANYONE will fare evade, its just for these people it is a conscious (or almost-conscious) act based on a bunch of questions they are running through in their head:. The public transport system provides a certain level of constant service and a monthly pass is a right to use this service. Its response last week to the cancellation of so many Southern trains was to issue a new timetable, removing one in six of its trains. Typical nit-picking scrooges.) The most important maxim when addressing a low-level crime is to make it easy to follow the law. Its really self-enforcing and does not need the extremely irritating British price-engineering. I wouldnt hold Japan up as a model here, since many (most?) This report puts forward a relatively simple Claim the Commute scheme as a solution to this problem.
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