Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Gettin' a little delirious. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. New England. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Kerdi Board Vs. Cement Board (What's The Difference?) - Home Mindset Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Is this overkill? Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Redgard is a similar product. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? - KnowledgeBurrow.com Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. 4. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. Installation. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. DensShield is one common brand. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Good luck with your project. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. Schluter-KERDI | Waterproofing (KERDI) | Schluter I usually use Durock. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. I also used the Kerdi drain. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. Why is this the case? there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Thanks to all for the feedback. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. It only takes a minute to sign up. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. 173 upvotes. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Kerdi Membrane Over Greenboard (Is It Recommended?) @JimmyFix-it - You are right. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Any recommendations? Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com It worked well - just like wallpapering. Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. Anytime Mongo. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. rev2023.3.3.43278. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Kerdi membrane over drywall in shower - qkfb.recidivazero.it Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). Kerdi Vs. RedGard (Compared) - Build It Fine Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. . Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? Make sure the floor is level in the shower. I've never had a failure. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Your email address will not be published. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? #2. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. 1. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. . I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. tripadvisor car rental tampa airport xnxx big tits; roommate questionnaire google form shadow of the dragon queen deluxe; cities where home prices are rising 2022 beachbody bodi block; mahogany tree seeds uses Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? We want that inside corner able to move. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces.