And it's not really strong. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. Part II. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Thanks for your call. They just end up in these places. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Thank you. You don't know what's going on. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . Tell us your story. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. The brother and sister big cats have lived . This is the exchange. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. 44-H Links. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Patrick Tate: Yes. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. Share. Mountain Lions in NH. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? So. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Love hearing these stories. It's listed as population of least concern. They're just moving around freely. Does not test random Scouts. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. So that did it for me. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. So take care of this problem. Well thanks for sharing. Caller: I do. 1957. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Absolutely. What do you think that. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. I tracked cats and all the western states. for some excitement. And it was unmistakable. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. 19
Sam Evans Brown. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Post your sightings and NH photos here! I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. brings a lot of. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Sam. By Eric Orff. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Right. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Can you tell us about that story. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. So give us a call now. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. OK. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. How far were you from this cat. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? It's bigger but bigger and better world. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Peter Biello: Ok. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Mountain lion or cat running across. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. So so. Can we go to the site. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. Okay. Women control our lives. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. We'd love to have you in the queue. They kill big animals. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. We want answers. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Here it is. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Thank you. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. So there's even debate about that very subject. Really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. John is calling from Bennington. The report came in from a conservation officer. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Let's look for other evidence. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Right. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. Or years or so. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. I didn't see him online. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Caller: Oh hi. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. No I saw a camel. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Pelosi story here we go. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. I think that you probably are. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. There was a lot of DNA evidence. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Do cougars live in New England? I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Give today. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Yes. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. So what counts as verifiable evidence? It doesn't happen as much anymore. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. There's no attraction. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Caller: Oh yeah. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. I don't know if she still is. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Thanks for a great thanks. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. They sent it already. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. 50 feet above the most. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Just. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. Thanks very much. Yeah I did. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. John. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans.